the rings do not come out.

B9 Core Series - Ideas and Discussions
rubendariocba
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the rings do not come out.

Post#1 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:39 am

Hello friends, I do not get the names in the rings I print very well, but when I take it to the foundry I do not leave the names I get covered with metal.

What can be?
Last edited by rubendariocba on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Robert Howle
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#2 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:10 pm

First of all, do not click on the images. There is something attached to them. I started getting pop ups of virus warnings, prob. bogus but not worth the risk.

Not cured and or burnout not complete or both.

Robert Howle
Dance like nobody's watching!

rubendariocba
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#3 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:16 pm

burnout not complete


what do you mean with "burnout not complete"



corrected images, I did not know that they could upload to the forum. thanks for answering.
Last edited by rubendariocba on Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aaron RMW
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#4 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:06 pm

The burning out of the resin before casting was not thorough enough. Leaving obstructions or ash in the flask that prevent a complete casting. Try adjusting your ramp schedule, increasing airflow in your kiln, or vacuuming/blowing your flask clean of ash before pouring metal in it.

rubendariocba
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#5 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:18 pm

Aaron RMW wrote:The burning out of the resin before casting was not thorough enough. Leaving obstructions or ash in the flask that prevent a complete casting. Try adjusting your ramp schedule, increasing airflow in your kiln, or vacuuming/blowing your flask clean of ash before pouring metal in it.


Hello, Aaron RMW1472

I'm melting my last cycle that are 3hs to 1472

What time and fahrenheit should I follow?

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akgold
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#6 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:26 pm

what resin?
What investment are you using?
how long did you cure the models?
how did you cure the models?
I leave mine in overnight
I ramp from room temp straight to 1450. F it is held there until
morning when I then reduce it to casting temp of 800 deg yellow gold and 900 for white gold.
silver is also 900 t0 1000
I also make it a point to vacuum out my cans before I cast at 800 deg.
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

rubendariocba
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#7 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:11 pm

akgold wrote:what resin?
What investment are you using?
how long did you cure the models?
how did you cure the models?
I leave mine in overnight
I ramp from room temp straight to 1450. F it is held there until
morning when I then reduce it to casting temp of 800 deg yellow gold and 900 for white gold.
silver is also 900 t0 1000
I also make it a point to vacuum out my cans before I cast at 800 deg.



what resin?

Actually the yellow b9

What investment are you using?
R & R (Ransom & Randolph)

How long did you cure the models?

I do not have an estimated time, when I see my hard molds for me they are ready.

how did you cure the models?

I do not currently get my b9 curing machine, so I am using sunlight for example today made 89.6 F ° beautiful sunny day. today cure my 3 molds of box gloves that I attached photo.
Attachments
box1.jpg
box2.jpeg

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akgold
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#8 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:19 pm

You might want to look at your cure method.
pop them in the oven at 300 deg F for an hour then shut off oven and
remove them only after over has cooled down with door shut to about room temp to prevent shock
Then cast them
You can also add boric acid water to your mixture of R&R investment
Attachments
IMG_0491 (Medium).jpg
I'm so far behind I think I'm First !!

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Robert Howle
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#9 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:12 am

How long did u leave in full sun? Prob in sunlight it might take as long as 5 hrs., longer if large models. Depending on geometry, u may need to turn or flip the prints at some interval.

Put in a bowl of water as oxygen inhibits curing.

Use a clear container and put a mirror underneath or use reflective foil (aluminum).

When u place flask in the oven start at a ramp to 350 and hold min 1 hr. This will help complete the curing process.

Robert Howle
Dance like nobody's watching!

Aaron RMW
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#10 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:32 am

we ramp to 1450, and hold it there for like 1-3 hours I believe it varies depending on our first casting temp in the morning. You may want to consider checking your temp manually as some have stated; the actual temperature in the kiln can sometimes be much lower (50degrees F) than your temperature sensor is reading. The airflow is important from what I understand, in getting oxygen to the resin so it can burn off completely.

rubendariocba
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#11 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:47 pm

Robert Howle wrote:How long did u leave in full sun? Prob in sunlight it might take as long as 5 hrs., longer if large models. Depending on geometry, u may need to turn or flip the prints at some interval.

Put in a bowl of water as oxygen inhibits curing.

Use a clear container and put a mirror underneath or use reflective foil (aluminum).

When u place flask in the oven start at a ramp to 350 and hold min 1 hr. This will help complete the curing process.

Robert Howle


thank you very much for your advice, I will put it to the test.

and the truth is that I never exceeded more than 2 hours after curing in the sun.

rubendariocba
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Posts: 13

Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#12 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:55 pm

Aaron RMW wrote:we ramp to 1450, and hold it there for like 1-3 hours I believe it varies depending on our first casting temp in the morning. You may want to consider checking your temp manually as some have stated; the actual temperature in the kiln can sometimes be much lower (50degrees F) than your temperature sensor is reading. The airflow is important from what I understand, in getting oxygen to the resin so it can burn off completely.



I made some changes thanks to your comments, now I open the air window and I put something under my flask.

I also corrected my last temperature of my cycle to 1652F

302> 2 hour
698> 2 hour
1652> 3 hour
520> 1 hour aprox or more to pour metal

work with 925 silver.

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Robert Howle
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#13 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:28 pm

U do not need 1650F that is pushing the limits of the investment. You may shorten the life of your elements.

I set at 1450F to make sure I reach the 1350F minimum (my thermocouple is off approx. 50 to 60 degrees F). U can test by placing a cured print (no investment and no flask, but raised off the oven floor) in the oven and run your burnout. The resin will go to a black goop at my setting of 750F (will actually happen before the 750F) there for 2hrs. Then ramp to 1450F as fast as your controller allows and hold for 2 to 3 hrs depending on weight of print (large pieces 3 hrs.). When u check after the 2 hrs there should be nothing left of the print if u are reaching 1350F in your oven and u have proper air flow. You have to have enough oxygen entering the oven to complete the combustion of the resin residue.

Robert Howle
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RobertW
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Re: the rings do not come out.

Post#14 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:36 am

[/quote]
302> 2 hour
698> 2 hour
1652> 3 hour
520> 1 hour aprox or more to pour metal

work with 925 silver.[/quote]

Those temps are bizzare... no wonder you're having issues! You've received some good temp / ramp recommendations here so why don't you try them? 1652F is ok for PLAT envestment but WAY TOO HOT for regular (gypsum) envestment. If the envestment is NOT breaking down at that temp then your temp gauge is wrong and the actual temp is MUCH LOWER than it says. Have you checked your temps with temperature cones? Here's a chart (#14 cone should tell you what you need to know): https://www.sheffield-pottery.com/Orton ... -s/314.htm
Once you've determined what your TRUE peak temp is, you can choose a temp/ramp schedule that works for you. Ours is closer to AKGold's process and for heavy models or those with large flat surfaces we make sure we vacuum the flasks prior to casting (like Tim suggested).
By the way, casting temp for silver is 950-1000F (not 520)
One more time:
1: Clean models thoroughly
2:Cure models completely (preferably in hot water)... and if there is some final finishing performed (like surface filing or sanding) then cure some more afterwards.
3: Let the envested flask sit undisturbed for 2.5 to 3 hours before placing in oven
4: Elevate flasks in oven and make sure there is plenty of air circulation. Resin needs lots of oxygen to fully combust and disintegrate.
5: 300-350F for 2 hours minimum
6: 1450F for 2-3 hours
7: 1000F for 1 hour minimum (silver, white gold, 18K. 900F for 14Y)
(You can add a middle ramp to 750F if you like but I find it unnecessary)
8. Gently vacuum or blow out casting cavity before casting (optional but recommended... especially if air circulation is weak or when casting large models). (I call this the "peace of mind" step)

If you skip steps or deviate very much from them, don't expect successful results.

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