Core 530 vs. 550

B9 Core Series - Ideas and Discussions
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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#41 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:08 am

Sorry Mikej are no critics but only talking about others technologies, and for sure on that "pub" discussion your team has developed the new core series, and in any case we are sure that the new machine is greater than the previous one. We wait for others prints samples, or better to see the core in action during the exhibitions where you'll take parts.
On the other hand it seems to me legitimate to express some doubt in order to obtain further clarification on a product that is not yet known.
Ciao Sergio

andreas
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#42 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:41 am

Dont worry Cergio my friend ..

We have asked for a long time now from Mike to show us some examples of 3d prints made with the Core machine..
and i do not mean rings only,but also models or figures since you are advertising this new Core series for model makers also ..
i am interested to see how you will manage an 8-10 cm height train wagon or a full 120 mm miniature for example.

i am pretty sure that you have not done any elaborate figure/model printing in the highest resolution possible..
or if you have done the results are not good ,thats why you do not show pictures..
please feel free to "correct" me if i am wrong ,by just showing us some photos

Anyway Mike i wish you good luck with your reading ..
Maybe you will learn something more clever to share with us next time...

rkundla
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Re: Core 530 vs. 55 0

Post#43 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:45 pm

ROSITAGIOIELLI wrote:My dear RKUNDLA never say never overmost if you are ignorant: ALSO THIS IS VERY INTERESTING


Do you have any articles from the school about it? I can't find anything on it to see what its all about. Seems to just be an academic experiment for now.

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mikej
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#44 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:35 pm

andreas wrote:i am interested to see how you will manage an 8-10 cm height train wagon or a full 120 mm miniature for example.


Any chance you have some stl files you could share (privately if needed) for us to test print? I agree that we have been very slow to show examples, mainly because we are swamped gearing up the full production line.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#45 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:56 pm

My dear rkundla, it was only a my idea and than searching on the net I found the mentioned university research.If I were a manufacturer of 3D printers, I was wondering, what is really new can I offer to the market? Anyway any suggestions as negative would be gladly accepted.
in fact, it seems to me that all the discussion made by me and many other users on nuvat or pizza flexvat, fep, release mechanisms, printer tuning and calibration etc. etc. It was then taken into account by the designers of the core, but at first glance it does not seem that there is something really new comparing the machine to others on the market, see for example the printers of the TUCANO series http : //www.smart3d.net/prototyping-machines/TUCANO.
On the other hand no one has described how it is made the vat or told us what type brand and characteristics of used industrial projector( in the 1.2 we know that is a Vivitek) and so on. Surely later we become aware of these aspects and you can make a serious judgment. At present mine are only allegations and I apologize to Mikej for this, but I think that all this is part of the spirit of the forum and I don't believe are "speculations".
Ciao Sergio
Ps.
SOCRATE SAYS: "The dialectic is one of the main methods of argumentation of philosophy. It lies in the interaction between two opposing theses or principles (symbolically represented in Plato's dialogues by two real characters) and is used as an investigative tool of truth"

andreas
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#46 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:43 am

here you go Mike
I am attaching a link with a full figure for you to test .
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4ilajx6d0ce6 ... n.stl?dl=0
it would be good to print it in 30 microns using the full table if possible..
if you need more figures or busts i can send you ,no problem

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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#47 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:21 am

Hi Mikei sorry for curiosity have you ever take in consideration to make a 4k machine as g3d-rp100-printer see www.g3d.global/g3d-rp100-printer
Is the price of 9000 dmd Texas chip dmd too high? About 2780$
dlp 4k.jpg

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mikej
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#48 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:01 pm

Yes, we've certainly looked at the 4k options out there, as well as other technology. The cost of the chip is typically about 10% of the cost of the entire light engine. The cost to maintain the tolerances in manufacturing required to actually realize the 2x resolution increase are non-linear. :(
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#49 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:42 pm

Understand Mikej but the core look very hard construction, may be could you give a 4k options with 3/5000 $ more? That could be a very interesting price because the 3gd cost about 27000$.

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mikej
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#50 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:36 pm

Would you want 15 micron pixels or 4x the build table area from the increased pixel count?
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

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Stephen Attaway
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#51 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:28 pm

Does increasing the build platform size by 4x increase the cost in a non-linear manner the same way that going to 15 micros causes the cost to go non-linear?

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mikej
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#52 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:33 pm

It's more linear, but the speed will drop as the square of the area increase unless you increase the power output of the projector, which is non-linear cost increase (roughly). So, speed is a trade.
Measure Twice, Cut Once.

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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#53 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:41 am

Regards me, that I'm a jewel maker, could be better to reach the most accuracy possible, for sample in order to obtain the gems cutter on the pavè prongs. But for sure the goal could be to have the possibility of regulate the distance of the vat from the dmd as in the 1.2. for the highest detailed works and large construction work area for the protoproduction using castable wax But these mean more cost and so on....
I get my point as jewellery small producer (my company is ten people... too much)
For sure one affordable 4k machine with reasonable price, It would definitely be a winning competitor in the hard commercial battle between the 3d printers, representing something of really competitive in the market.
Ciao Sergio
Ps
consider for the next machine also the mix sla dlp technology very interesting

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Stephen Attaway
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#54 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:31 am

I often only grow one or two rings at a time. There are, however, cases where I need 40 rings. Currently I am only able to grow 10 per run, so I have to grow 4 sets. With a 4x increase in size I could grow all these at one time.

I also on occasions grow bracelets and large pendants. With the current B9 1.2, I can grow these at 50 micron. I would like to be able to grow bracelets at 30 micron. Even with a slower print time on par with the B9 1.2, a machine at 30 micron with a build area the size of the core 550 would be attractive.

Maybe some middle ground would work best. Say 20 to 25 micron xy with a larger build area. Clearly I have not worked out the trade space here, but something in that range would be great. Is it possible to control the xy and z bleed well enough to get a true 15 micron resolution in x, y, and z?

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Metalcaster
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#55 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:36 am

Hi Stephen,
I have been running my 1.2 machine at 50XY x 30 and as low as 20 with B9 red/cherry
and getting near flawless college rings with as many as 8 high detail rings on the platform. This machine is very tightly tuned in every area.

My other machine is a 1.1 machine that I converted into a 1.2 machine( Bought a back up 1.2 projector from B9,decided after a year to modify the 1.1) and I have that set up at 70 XY running the same material .... this is still being worked on as I have this running with FEP . with PDMS , it seems to run fine at 30XY for rings, lots of room!

But I really am using the modified B9 for very large bracelets at 70XY that do not fit the 50 xy table.
I can't run PDMS on those as It destroys the pdms on the first print due to the complexity of the designs and the many thick and thin areas.
My FEP runs well on 30XY...as good as PDMS.
at 70 xy /FEP, I am still having a learning curve getting the settings. Some of the large bracelets are coming out pretty good... usable, but not perfect. Nobody is working in that sized area, so I don't have anyone to talk to about setting adjustments.

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Capn
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#56 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:39 pm

A B9 printer that could do 30xyz and has a build volume of around 4-5 inches would be amazing! I use my B9 for very detailed models and my only limitation seems to be the build size. I usually just slice up the model into different parts and re-assemble after printing. Having an option for an even larger build volume B9 would be extremely helpful.

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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#57 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:57 am

gem cut.jpg

I wonder if anyone has ever managed to achieve cuts on the prongs using the highest 30 xy resolution? The stones are 1,7mm and the prongs 0,6mm.
So I think the real step head in a new machine is to get higher resolution, in order to obtain that

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Robert Howle
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#58 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:01 am

I would never put cuts in prongs that small, could present casting issues. Hate to have them breaking off during setting operations.

Just my opinion.

Robert Howle
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akgold
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#59 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:19 pm

ROSITAGIOIELLI wrote:
gem cut.jpg

I wonder if anyone has ever managed to achieve cuts on the prongs using the highest 30 xy resolution? The stones are 1,7mm and the prongs 0,6mm.
So I think the real step head in a new machine is to get higher resolution, in order to obtain that


Why would you want that?
I would raise the prongs and do away with the rounded tops make them flat they print much better.
as for cutting the seats in the model that is just a waste of time it will just give you another reason to complain
because the seat is cut at the wrong angle or not deep enough.
There has to be a limit to the machine's expectations. If you want seats cut in your prongs send it to the mill.

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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: Core 530 vs. 550

Post#60 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:02 pm

Dear aka the pic is only for show the prongs cut, in the reality the stones is bigger or the prongs are close the stones.
But sorry have you ever listen the terms WAX SETTINGS? I explain you: if you have to set thousands of stones and you have to fight against the Chinese products or you vote for Trump as president (but in Italy unfortunately we have not him) or you can set the stones directly in the wax, and than cast all together. To achieve that you have to prepare the prongs as the normal setting ..... cutted.
Sla machine as dws achieve that,But cost 30000$ :roll: :roll: :roll:
Ciao PIZZAFLEXVAT SERGIO

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