First print using FEP and custom made build table

Successful prints based on Model construction, supports, material selection & printer settings.
baldiero
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#21 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:37 am

It looks great!!

I have 1 question, is FEP necessary only custom build table ?
Because I think my original build table is horizontal.
So if it is ok, I want to buy just FEP and want to attatch on my VAT.

andreas
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#22 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:51 am

no it does not require any modification at all.
just put it in the VAT window

danfurlano
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#23 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:31 pm

Just as a note the FEP that McMaster sells it too thin to use. You will need something close to .2mm in order to get it to work.

Dan

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Robert Howle
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#24 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:00 pm

Any one have a source for the thicker FEP?

Robert Howle
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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#25 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:01 am

Hi Rob, there are many supplier of thicker fep more than 0,2 mm, but for me was impossible find with the back side modified for gluing directly on the glass, and for this reasons I built the PIZZA FLEXVAT! In order to be able to give the enough tension to the fep film, actually in the pizza flexvat I'm using the 0,2 mm.
For sure if you find 0,5mm with the back with glue ....you made goal!
Hei Andrea you say that you have reduced the msm to 0,8 but did you made a print calibration? And what's the result?
Ciao Sergio

andreas
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#26 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:30 am

Cergio the result are the prints you can see in this post..

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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#27 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:05 am

Ok nice I know but in the Jewellry works is it very important the dimensions. Few 0,01mm of difference are important!
I suggest in order of doesn't loose resin for calibration I designed a print calibration model with only the pins thik 2mm and high 3,19mm
griglia da stampare.jpg

I wonder also to the Guru of the forum if that is correct
Ciao Sergio

andreas
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#28 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:37 am

i think its better to not try and adjust the final dimensions by changing the MSM settings..
cause in this way you are also changing the basic properties that are needed for a successful print.
like exposure times,over cure,resin properties e.t.c .

First you need to establish an MSM that works no matter the size of the file you are printing.
i would suggest the default 1
After that you need to calibrate the resin for the <MSM 1 and eliminate the z-bleed cause this also is a huge factor in changing the final dimensions..
so you need to experiment with making a new material settings ,
or add pigments to the resin to block the light..

After these operations are finished and you have reduced the z-bleed as low as possible
..then you can do a test print measure it ,see what is the difference with original file ,
and correct it either by using the shrinkage multiplier in material settings,
or use the scale tab in LAYOUT.
i would also suggest to calibrate the machine MSM and material settings using not the B9 calibration file,
but an actual product you are making ..
a ring would show you a lot more ,regarding the z-bleed issue ..

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Robert Howle
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#29 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:10 am

I agree that MSM should not be used to adjust dimentional issues. Most long time users here use 3d scale in their CAD program on the finished model to compensate for resin shrinkage due to curing.

It is always best to use the lowest MSM that gives proper layer curing and attachment. This helps mitigate z bleed and dimentional inaccuracies. The lower the MSM the longer the PDMS lasts (another reason to tune the MSM).

Fade, balance, and slope are used to adjust for lamp variations. Even light energy distribution allows for all the pixels of the chosen xy resolution to expose the resin to the same amount of UV needed for layer curing. Any of the calibration prints will aid in determining adjustments that may be needed for these lamp variations.

I cannot be forgotten that the "focus" has to be done properly to obtain crisp layer images and therefore accurately reproduced stls. The use of the B9 calibration files is a good way to check for focus and other lamp adjustments due to the logo art present in these files.

Just some thoughts.

Robert Howle
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danfurlano
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#30 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:13 am

I ordered this from mUVe, does not state thickness but does have instructions so I assume its possible to use...

http://www.muve3d.net/press/product/fep ... r-coating/

And I sent these guys an email to see if they will sell small sheets of their optically clear materials. They state they have thicknesses of 3-30 mils.

http://integument.com/our_products/opti ... lear_film/

Dan

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Robert Howle
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#31 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:18 am

Thanks Dan

Robert
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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#32 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:37 am

Basically the fep film is a DUPONT product this is the address of one italian re seller but I think that it isn't posibble to glue it :http://it.rs-online.com/web/p/pellicole-per-isolamento-elettrico-e-chimico/5363980/
About calibration I tough that if the size of the pins are more ugual to 2mm value also the size model became egual to the cad files this is my calibration at the moment
CALIBRATION 3GEN 2017.jpg

with these parameter
PRINT SETT 3 GENN 2017.jpg

what do you suggest me to do for adjust these?

andreas
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#33 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:24 am

Danfurlano i have tried this FEP film from muve..They have an adhesive back
But they are not any good.They will shear apart in a couple of prints and also it is nearly impossible
to apply them successfully.
Due to the force of the release method that B9 uses you need to search for 0,5mm thickness and up.
Thickness is very important factor to successfully apply the FEP film ..

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Metalcaster
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#34 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:57 am

I have custom made fep thicker with built in glue. Contact me off list at sales@racecarjewelry.com
Mine is 4.5 inches wide by 12 inches long... enough for 2 trays.
Works best on glass as it can be scraped off of glass, then clean the glass surface and re-apply. You do not need to remove the glass from the tray.
Works best on aluminum trays.
Putting the material on is tricky. If you get small air bubbles, do not try to Prick them to release the air... that does not work ...just put it on the machine and run a 50xy Calibration print. The heat from the printing will cause the airpockets to flatten and dissapear.
I have some stock of this material...

danfurlano
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#35 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:13 am

Thanks Andreas.

I called Integument Technologies and they are very helpful. First off they said that people are using their film in 3d printers, one customer has been running for 9 months on the same film. They really only have 3 and 5 mil thicknesses.

Their film has an adhesive that is a chemical bond to the FEP which makes it more optically clear but it that has a very high tack. The only issue is the adhesive has UV blockers in it and they sent me a data sheet on what wave lengths are blocked, but I assume if others are using the film it must be ok. They are working on a new product with an adhesive supplier that does not use UV blockers in the formulation. Here is the adhesive brochure and a clip of the UV graph:

IP4000.pdf
PDF
(44.98 KiB) Downloaded 31 times


Capture.JPG


My question is the UV graph the adhesive blocks to about 390nm. If i recall I thought the UV light is 400-410? Can anyone comment on that?

Lastly they told me that they have a slip release that works with their films. They asserted that they are the only ones with this slip release product. According to the instructions you spray the substrate and place the film on the slip release and squeegee out the release and the film will stick to the substrate (glass). The release is inexpensive and they do sell small pieces (don't know the cost yet). Below are the data sheets for the film and installation guide.

Optically clear FEP brochure.pdf
(1.37 MiB) Downloaded 41 times


Optically clear installation guide.pdf
(954.99 KiB) Downloaded 34 times


Dan

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Metalcaster
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#36 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:24 am

Sounds similar to what I had custom made . I was using this type of material 5 years ago on a different machine.

danfurlano
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#37 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:29 am

Were the UV properties the same?

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Metalcaster
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#38 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:48 am

Hi Dan,
I can't say for sure... When I was talking with the manufacturer ( a different one), they told me the silicone based glue they use would not have any measurable effect.
I had to drop my MSM by more then 1/2 when I started using it on both my projectors.

Personally, at the moment , for Items like filigree rings/earrings that are very fine, I would continue to use pdms on those... So long as the PDMS is reasonably clear, it works fine and it does have better release properties for very fine ,delicate components.

I suspect that with more people using FEP , some manufacturers will start working on the release factors and that would improve. At the moment, we are on our own developing settings that work. Some resins actually run perfectly on FEP. Some will need tweaking to get them to stick to the platform!

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ROSITAGIOIELLI
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#39 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:26 pm

What do you think about that? and pls someone could say some thing about the printer calibration parameter of my previous post?
Thanks Sergio
FEP FILM 2.jpg

baldiero
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Re: First print using FEP and custom made build table

Post#40 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:27 am

@Metalcaster

I sent e-mail to you. Let me know about it, please. Thank you. :)

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